Will the BraX3 phone be able to make emergency calls using Starlink if the caller is far from a cell phone tower and not getting a cell signal?
Below is a link to an article that discusses phone support for using Starlink for emergency calls when far from cell towers.
https://www.pcmag.com/news/fcc-relaxes-rule-to-allow-for-wider-phone-support-on-t-mobiles-cellular
Hi @PrivateThoughts . Although it might technically be possible to do this for the BRAX3, which I don’t think it is, I highly doubt that BRAX could incur the cost of certifying the device for satellite calls so that it would be accepted by operators for this service. Keep in mind that we are not talking about a mass-produced device or a huge mass manufacturing company. Best regards.
Do you know a good way to get the makers of the BraX3 to respond to this?
How much does it cost to certify the device (it may not be that much)? How much is a life worth?
Let’s say it doesn’t cost that much to certify the BraX3. Why not try to certify it? Then Brax could market the device as working for emergency call when out of cell tower range when using T-mobile as the carrier.
T-mobile is bragging about the capability hoping to attract more customers.
T‑Mobile Conducts the First Ever Wireless Emergency Alert Via Satellite - T‑Mobile Newsroom
If it’s not too expensive, then getting the BraX3 certified may not only save lives/help people in emergencies, it could be used by Brax to market the BraX3.
Why would T-Mobile make it expensive to certify a device as being able to be used to make an emergency call using Starlink when out of cell tower range? They don’t make money on phone certifications. They make money on people subscribing to their service. A certification is one-time. Subscription payments occur monthly.
If T-Mobile is smart, they won’t make the certifying process expensive or onerous. Get more phones capable of making calls during emergencies when out of tower range. Get more people to switch to T-Mobile because the want to be able to make an emergency call when a storm/earthquake/terrorist/whatever has knocked out the cell towers and they need help. And when more people switch to T-Mobile, then T-Mobile makes more money.
If Brax is smart and wants to sell more phones, they’ll consider certifying the BraX3 so it can make emergency calls on the T-Mobile network when the towers are out of range/not working.
I agree with you that it would be a great feature, but currently there are only about 50 certified models, all manufactured in the last two years, mostly mid to high-end. The device needs to meet hardware and software requirements and obtain certification from GSMA or the regulatory body in your country. This is not a phone for government approval; it doesn’t use government-approved software or operators, and it is designed to operate outside the system. What you’re asking for is a feature that would allow you to be tracked by satellite 24/7. Here in Europe (I’m from Spain), they are starting to raise flags when you use phones with Graphene OS or anything outside of Android and iOS. They want us inside the system, and they will increasingly impose restrictions. Regards!
That is an excellent point @jcaceres. There are some serious privacy implications regarding location tracking of satellite enabled mobile phones. Location tracking will be pinpoint for satellite phones, especially for those in rural areas, who enjoy some obfuscation with traditional cell towers.
In the future, it is anticipated that satellite location tracking will be the norm. There will generally only be two scenarios where traditional cell towers will still be used. The first is highly dense urban areas (think tall buildings and skyscrapers). The second will be indoors where devices will loose line of sight with satellites. In these cases, micro towers will pick up the slack and provide connectivity to mobile devices.
Whereas your location can be estimated with traditional cellular networks, satellites will track you to the chair you are sitting in.
Absolutely, if it’s about functionality, my iPhone 16 PM already has satellite calling and everything you can imagine, plus everything is simple and easy without surprises or complications… but of course, €1800 and selling your usage, your location, and your conversations for your entire life… and increasingly so. I see this project as a complete mindset change: trying not to lose functionality, but ensuring that convenience doesn’t mean giving away my privacy. Regards!
How do you know this? If it does track, then it’s not worth it for a privacy phone. But how do you know that it will track 24/7?
Also, if there’s someone who is trying to track cell phones, it would make mores sense to track with cell towers in order to get all the cell phone users, not just the users who could make an emergency satellite call if needed.
If you are going to make an assertation, you need to back up what you say with a link to a citation. How do you know that T-Mobile phones that could make emergency calls via satellite would be tracked 24/7?
Let’s say I work in something related to this. T-Mobile and all of them. Even today, you’re already being tracked approximately and imprecisely. With satellites, you’ll be tracked at all times. If you knew the “toys” that telcos have to know everything you do if you don’t take measures, and to commercialize your data and user profiling, you’d drop dead. Seriously, you can believe me or not. It’s obviously an issue that in specific situations can be a matter of life or death, but I wouldn’t recommend even to my worst enemy—given what I see and where we’re heading—to be trackable by satellite 24/7. Regards.
Cell tower triangulation and GPS have differences in accuracy of determining location. GPS is generally more accurate, typically providing location data within a few meters (not to the chair one is sitting in), because it uses trilateration based on precise timing signals from multiple satellites, which are equipped with atomic clocks and transmit their known positions.
In contrast, cell tower triangulation estimates location by measuring the signal strength or time delay from a device to multiple cell towers, a process that is less precise due to factors like signal reflection, interference, and the inability to measure distance directly.
This results in a lower accuracy, usually ranging from hundreds of meters to several kilometers, which is dependent on the density of cell towers.
How much difference would it make whether advertisers or the government knows where an individual is within a few meters or a few hundred meters?
And if one is worried about that, then the better solution is to not take a phone/remove the phone battery/put the phone in a Faraday bag before going to any location that needs to be kept secret. Also, don’t forget to wear an invisibility cloak, stay away from your neighbor’s Ring doorbell camera, and check over your shoulder to make sure you’re not being followed. 
I’m not trying to convince you of anything; I think there’s a big difference between what you propose in your last paragraph and what I’m telling you. Seriously, if you need the functionality because having a satellite-based tracking service in your name is vital to you, the BRAX3 is not your optimal phone. Buy a Samsung or an iPhone and you’ll have it easier in every respect. I’m here to try to help, not to be treated like a lunatic. Best regards and goodbye.
Again, I agree 100% with @jcaceres. The purpose of the BraX3 phone is to help users stop feeding the Big Tech data beast. The purpose is not to help you disappear from the world altogether, as the nature of mobile devices makes this nearly impossible. That being said, I agree that adding additional tracking technology (satellite calling) creates another opportunity for the user to unknowingly generate location data that will later be monetized by Big Tech.
Traditional cellular tracking capabilities can can allow your device to be tracked generally within several hundred meters in a moderately densely populated area. There are also non-user initiated communications with the cell towers that can be quite precise, usually within 70 meters along a defined arc. OP alluded to this, which is often known as Timing Advance. I would also point out that with cell tower communications, there is no such thing as “Triangulation” as there are no angle measurements calculated between the towers and devices. The location tracking method is actually called Trilateration or Multilateration where several data points are stacked and interpreted. Again, this can get you a confidence rating of meters, but cannot pinpoint you to a spot like satellite GPS can.
I would further argue that the use case for this technology is pretty fringe as most folks (in America at least) live in urban areas…approximately 80%. The chances of being outside of cellular coverage is quite slim. Anecdotally, I live almost a 3 hour drive away from the nearest urban center (rural by any measure) and I can’t remember the last time I did not have a cellular signal.
Admittedly, T-Mobile’s marketing for the feature is pretty compelling.
Emergencies like the LA fire and Hurricane Sandy in NY are fringe events. But when they happen it’s nice to be able to call 911 and talk.
It was in New Orleans until Hurricane Katrina blew through.
There can even be major outages with no catastrophic event. Just because the system was “overwhelmed.”
Verizon customers face mass-scale outage across the US - Ars Technica
AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon users hit by cellular outage in US
“Several police stations throughout the country even warned that people might be unable to call to report emergencies.”
AT&T did have SOS mode during the outages that occurred for no reason and allowed emergency calls.
Yeah, I agree that in emergencies it would be nice to have, but I stand by it being a fringe use case. Users are still subject to prioritization and physical limitations of satellite connections, just like with cellular. For me, I would not trade the additional location gathering for this feature, but would be open to finding a way to make the feature privacy respecting.
If someone was truly wanting to have a emergency phone call ability, some phones will do that without a plan. That option Could work in some area’s. Is it ideal or satellite? Nope. But an option depending where u r. Its better than compromising the whole purpose of getting a Brax 
I know I said, “nice to have,” but I misspoke.
Emergencies are what separate “nice to have” from “need to have.”
Now we’re talking.
Would that be technologically possible?
I typed this into the Brave browser:
Is it possible to have satellite coverage for cell phone calls during emergencies only, but not have the satellites track phone location at other times?
And got this answer:
It is possible to use satellite connectivity for emergency calls and messages without continuous location tracking, but the system’s design means location is shared when using specific emergency features.
For iPhone users with models from the iPhone 14 series onwards, satellite connectivity can be used to send emergency messages, request roadside assistance, or share location via the Find My app when cellular and Wi-Fi are unavailable.
When using Emergency SOS via satellite, your location is shared with Apple and the emergency relay provider to assist responders, and this data is retained for service improvement and legal compliance.
However, this location sharing is only active during the emergency communication process. For non-emergency features like Messages via satellite, your location is not shared unless you specifically choose to send it, and the messages are end-to-end encrypted.
T-Mobile’s T-Satellite service, which uses Direct to Cell technology with Starlink satellites, allows users to send and receive text messages, including texts to 911, and share location through the native messaging app when cellular coverage is absent.
The service automatically connects when no other network is available, and the phone will continue trying to send messages in the background, even if the phone is in a pocket.
While the system does not continuously track your location, it does share your location with emergency services when you send an emergency message.
The service is designed to be used only when cellular coverage is unavailable, meaning location tracking is not active during normal cellular operation.
So according to that answer, it’s what you are asking for. But it involves trust. Remember- Trust But Verify. Any way to verify?
So I ask Brave’s AI:
How can you know if the location of a phone on the T-Mobile network is being tracked?
Most of the answer was irrelevant but it did include this:
Certain codes can be dialed to check for call or data forwarding, which might indicate tracking. For T-Mobile, which uses a GSM network, dialing *#002# will list all call and data forwarding settings, and ##002# will clear them.
If these settings are active, it could mean your phone is being redirected, potentially for tracking purposes.
I have no idea how true any of that is.
But people who live and breathe this stuff, like Braxman, should be able to tell us. That why I asked early in this thread about Brax (or anybody knowledgeable and willing to cough up their name and resume) weighing in on this.
But will those phones do it without working cell towers? 
Lol. Like I said…. Is it ideal or satellite? Nope. Y’all need to brush up on your basic survival skills & what the hell you should put in a emergency pack. Period. And have it nearby. Not in a closet. 
And if a EMP or worse happens… well I hope people keep a emergency backpack at all times nearby. I assume even satellite connections can be over run. Just say’n. Be accountable to yourself first. Your phone should be “the backup” to your back-up. 
A bugout bag is a good idea. So is having a working cell phone for emergencies when cell towers either don’t work or aren’t around.
It’s not realistic for every member of a person’s family to carry a bugout bag at all times and be adequately trained in survival skills, self-defense, firearms, etc, especially school-age family members, people with disabilities, etc.
Garmin makes a inReach emergency messenger that are used by hikers and climbers out in the back country where there is no cell service. Get one of those and put it in your BOB (bug out bag) and you will be prepared for that SHTF moment. Let’s not defeat the purpose of the Brax3 by adding a extra feature that might compromise why we are buying this phone in the first place. Here is the link to the Garmin if you would like to check it out : Garmin inReach® Messenger Plus | SOS Satellite Communicator or the Garmin inReach Mini 2 : Garmin inReach® Mini 2 | Satellite Communicator | Messenger